reasonable gun safety laws. >> what needs to happen for that to happen as we're joined by one senator live about the 60 vote threshold. we're learning details about the suspected shooter as the survivors deal with the loss. >> i don't know how to go to work and see the spot that my friends died and be okay. fireworks expected with the hills biggest names showing up in a rare power play as democrats push their plan for swinging election reform starting as you can see live right now. good morning, kat beck is in boulder colorado. let's me start with you, katy, and some of the details that we're learning about the

suspected shooter and the victims in this instance as well. >> good evening, halle. federal and local authorities are working around the clock to try to figure out the last piece of this puzzle which is a key one. what was the motive here? what motivated this shooting and they're doing so by going through every bit of the suspected gunman's history. his mental history. executing search warrants on his vehicle, his home, and his social media account to see if there was any postings in recent days that may shed light on a possible motivation here. we know that he purchased a firearm just a week before the shooting and witness accounts from inside that grocery store paint a terrifying picture of what it was like as he shot indiscriminantly at the strangers inside. calling for help, asking police to rescue them as they were protecting themselves and each other from gunfire. now as that is ongoing, the

grief here in boulder is substantial. this community is deeply devastated by what has happened here and we have seen massive crowds gathering at vigils, at makeshift memorials, these are real people in their community. faces they know, loved, and recognized. a man that was going to be a grandfather. a woman that worked at the grocery store for 30 years, and even some who were just starting their life in their 20s who were in that store doing what we all do so often, just grocery shopping with an assumption of safety that was not real. colorado has a dark past when it comes to mass shootings and this is another community that will be forever changed. >> kristin, there is more

pressure. you heard vice president harris talk about the idea of a message coming from the white house on this issue. >> that's right the white house is stepping up calls to congress to take action. two bills pasted the house that would expand background checks. now the president and the vice president are saying it's time for the senate to act. garrett will delve into the details of why that is such a uphill batting, but congress we know that candidate biden said that he would introduce new legislation on day one in office that would have essentially repelled liability protections. he has not done that yet and now the focus is on what happened. now they're working on executive actions that president biden plans to take but the reality is, hallie even the white house

is acknowledging that executive actions only go so far. take a listen to what the vice president had to say earlier today. >> there is a piece about executive action but if we pass legislation it's permanent. it's not about getting rid of the second amendment, it's about laws. there is no reason we should have assault weapons that are designed to kill people quickly. >> this is a painful ritual in this country. a mass shooting, calls for action, followed by inaction. we saw this in the wake of sandy hook. that's when vice president biden and then former president obama called on congress to take action to expand background checks. there wasn't any respond to that from a legislative perspective. then vice president biden lead the effort to not only oppose

executive actions. in the country it is still an issue that continues to be a significant challenge to president biden and his administration. >> so let's talk about that, garrett, where is the appetite for this on capitol hill. we know the house passed a couple background check bills. where does it go in the senate and it seems to me where it goes will hing on a couple people. number one, senator joe manchin, and senator mcconnell is speaking elsewhere saying he has not spoken to president biden and on the issue of gun changes he says the focus should be on mental illness and says it should be on identifying people in advance that have the

capacity and interest in carrying out the attacks. are you getting a window for what senate might do? >> a lot to unpack in that question. when the comes to mcconnell, he told me yesterday, he said on another network in the last few minutes, that he is open to a discussion about changing the laws around guns but it would have to focus or include a discussion about mental illness. he sees the through line as the shooter being mentally ill by definition and that is an important element to address. as to the fate of the bills voted on in the house mcconnell's buy in or not could be important. important as we're trying to calculate getting to 60 votes. right now democrats don't have 50. joe manchin says he does not support either of the two house bills, he says they're two

broad. it is also passable. all of that said chuck schumer who was the majority in a senate says he will put these bills on the floor for a vote and we will be able to at least smoke out when the bills are presented. we're going to go to a different topic. live at a hearing now set to set off fireworks this morning in, of all places, the senate rules community. not typically the site of high stakes and high drama. there is a focus on the overhaul of the election system. you're seeing senator klobuchar speak now. we expect to see mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer at this hearing today.

let me bring in lean caldwe caldwell. this is a very big deal for both parties. >> this is becoming the fight of the congress. the access to the ballot box. something that democrats have been pushing for and something they want to insure gets down. especially after 2020 and the allegations of fraud. you're going to hear them say this is an attempt at a federal takeover of the election process and you're going to hear the two biggest players in the senate make those arguments themselves. they are both going to attend this hearing today and speak. so what does this bill do that they're even discussing? well, it expands voter

registration capabilities. it expands voting early and by mail and tax return disclosure requirements. and that is just a small list of how broad this legislation is. but steeped very deeply into this discussion is also talk of the filibuster. this has become the premier issue that progressives and democrats have been pointing to as a reason to get rid of the filibuster, hallie. >> you're right, and that is essentially where we're seeing the fire works. we're going to keep an eye on this hears for the rest of the hour. also happening, just a couple minutes from now on the busy morning, the white house covid response team as the administration today focuses on how to get schools back open safely. what the new education secretary

is telling us about that time line coming up. plus, members of congress and white house officials going to the border this morning. a rare look at the border surge from the air. we'll talk about it with the vice chair of the homeland security committee. e homeland security committee from anywhere, unlike those other subs. my sub has steak. wait, what did he say? steak! choose better be better and now save when you order in the app. subway eat fresh.

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right now a white house

delegation is on it's way. interestingly the white house says one pool reporter representing a lot others will be allowed in with them to shoot their own footage inside. this is the tifltt comes at president biden is meeting today to help with homeland security and other immigration advisors trying to contain the surge of migrants at the border and the political fallout as we're getting a remarkable birds eye view of what is happening on the ground. we're taking a tour of the border. >> it has been extremely busy. >> it only takes a few minutes to spot them. >> two, four, six, seven, eight, nine. 91 right here. just in this group. >> group after group of migrants crossing into the u.s. seen from above as we ride with

troopers from the texas department of public safety. >> that's the smuggler and the coyote coming back to mexico. looks like he just dropped a family unit on the u.s. side. >> at times it's hard to keep count. this pilot has been working the border for decades. >> you're seeing this all day? >> all day long. >> gabe gutierrez reporting there. congressman torres. good morning. thank you for being being here today. >> you saw and heard that report there. do you believe based on what you're seeing and the information from the ground that the administration's deterrent strategy is working? >> i'm confident that the administration is making every conceivable effort to manage the situation at the border. it is worth putting everything into context.

the number of migrants has been rising. in recent history we have seen multiple ways for migrants, we saw one in 2014 in the obama administration. one trump administration, and one in 2021 in the biden administration. so the migrant surge is more of a constant event than an event from the administrations policies. >> do you believe that the president, he is sending white house officials to the border today as we speak, should the president himself be going there? >> i mean it's not my place to tell the president where he should go. but i'm convinced that he is treating it with the seriousness

it deserves. dhs is setting up joint processing centers. the trump administration was a reign of terror for immigrants. with president biden and the white house more families are going to claim and care for unaccompanied minors. and they're restoring the central american program. they will be about to apply for asylum in their home country. >> you mentioned the issue of migrant children crossing the border as well. we're getting our first look as you know of images released by the government and the administration. are those conditions, based on what you have seen, acceptable to you?

>> the conditions are not acceptable and keep in mind that the biden administration has the challenge of building from crash a system that was all but dismantled from the trump administration. the trump administration would expel everyone. cruelty towards children is easy. it is much more humane to create a process by which these children are cared for and safely reunited with families and that's what administration is doing. no administration has been expected to do so much, so quickly, with so few resources. we're ill equipped even in the lest of times, but particularly during covid-19. folks have been looking at some of those pictures, some of that video released by the government as we mentioned there will be

one pool reporter let in with that white house delegation today. critical for people to see with their own eyes what things are like inside. as you know the administration came under enormous pressure to do that did it take too long, or should the administration give more access to others as well in the interest and the name of transparency? >> i agree with you. the administration given transparency from the outset. it is important to put it into context. they're starting from scratch and making every effort to safely shelter these children. covid-19 put real constraints on the shelter capacity on an underresourced system. >> congressman torres, thank you for your perspective this morning. a lot of eyes today down on the

border at what is happening there. coming up still ahead, president biden as we talked about calling on congress to act in gun reform in the wake of a couple mass shootings in less than a ek woo. we're talking to senator tim kaine on what the chances really are of that happening. plus, it had been a hard sell. communities dealing with vaccine skeptics. why some are simply saying no. . we didn't stop at storage or cloud. we kept going. working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. and help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. so when it comes to your business, you know we'll stop at nothing. alright, guys, no insurance talk on beach day. -i'm down. -yes, please. [ chuckles ]

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in just about five minutes or so the white house covid response team and public officials are going to hold a briefing at the white house. the administration is also holding a summit focused on how to quickly and safely get every student, all of them, back into the classrooms. the education secretary saying this morning over on "the today show he expects that to happen by the fall or sooner. >> do you expect that 100% of schools will be open for inperson learning? >> thank you for having me. i do. but i really want to focus on getting as many now in the spring. >> talk through some of the actions that we expect to hear announced today, what is your anticipation as you talk to sources there? >> hallie, the agenda has suddenly gotten very crowded,

hasn't it? he has been making plans. the situation at the border, the conversation about gun control, but there was a time when that goal that he set during the transition of getting kids back into the crass rooms in the first 100 days was a source of criticism. now this question of getting their kids back into school remains. we'll see the president, the vice president, the first lady, the new education secretary and the cdc director in threes. first hearing from local school district leaders. the strategies for reopening their schools. second a briefing from the cdc. some of their experts about what to look for and how to make sure their protocols are in place. and third the social and

emotional needs that need to be addressed. now going into this summit the white house announced$81 billion has now been released to states through the american rescue plan. in order to reopen schools as well as a new initiative that the secretary addressed about enrichment and schools for students that maybe have faden behind as you would expect when you're in virtual learning. a way for a lot of students to be able to get caught up ahead of next year's when they say they hope that all students will be able to get back in the classroom. >> thank you, on the issue of covid vaccinations, as of this morning here is the latest number. nearly 84 million americans have received at least one dose. that is a big number, but it is still only about 25% of nerve this country. not enough to reach herd

immunity. and vaughn, one of the things you're finding is the reason for the low vaccination number is because of vaccine skepticism? >> you're right. there is an extraordinarily long way to go to reach herd immunity. the biggest distinction that we need to make is the general distrust in government. this is not just a 2021 thing or a coronavirus vaccine, but this is a growing general distrust. >> i don't care if i look like the wise guy or the dumb guy. it's my decision. i just decided i'm not going to do it. >> i'm not going to get the covid vaccine.

i don't feel like -- i feel like i'm good, i don't need to. i take vitamins and what not. i'm pretty healthy. we're in the early stages and there is no long-term in effect of what the symptoms are. >> i thatered quite a few people say they're not going to get it. they're afraid to put things in their body. they're afraid they will get something from it. they're afraid, i don't know. i have not heard any good reason why peent around going to get it. >> polling has shown here that half of them are not going to get the vaccines or they're going to wait and see. perhaps there is no greater place that mirrors that polling than right up on capitol hill. they are available to them for the last three months. dr. fauci said it's going to

take 70% to 90% of the population getting vaccinated to reach herd immunity here. just 8% of the population has received their first dose and again just 5% are fully vaccinated here in this rural county, hallie. >> vaughn, thank you, it's important. it is important to talk about the public health officials that say it is safe. thank you as well. back on the hill, two asian american senators are backing off of their threat not to confirm president biden's nominations. >> there's not a single asian-american in the cabinet.

that's not acceptable. >> this is not about pitting one diversity group against another. i think this is a well articulated focused position and i am prepared to join her in that. >> let me bring in the national reporter and the conflict created in the white house. >> they are working to diffuse the situation. especially calling these senators and giving them assurances. first broadly that it will do more to elevate asian voices in the administration and that it will appoint a liason to make sure they're concerns are addressed. this was snuff for them to stand down on their threat and to say they will continue to confirm ft. biden's nominees.

we can put their statements on the screen. i'm told this was a product of frustration that had been simmering for months. and it all kind of blew up yesterday when senator duckworth was speaking to reporters. broadly the context here is key. asian americans are the fastest growing demographic group in the country and what we're seeing here is a growing effort by leaders of that community to demand a seat at the table. >> thank you very much for that reporting, appreciate it. coming up here on the "new york times," disturbing new video with the moment that office sicknick was attacked with bear

spray. will or can anything change? democratic senator tim kaine on if he thinks this time might be different. n if he thksin this time might be different. [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today.

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will see them, but you'll notice the difference. call today to start your 30-day risk-free trial at your local miracle-ear. you're forgiven if you wake up this morning feeling a little deja vu. there is a chance that little will change in a cycle unique to the united states. since the 2012 sandy hook sitting there has been failed attempts to expand background checks. restrict high capacity magazines. that long list of failed efforts.

with one notable exception. the act that prevents them from getting guns. not before a big surge in least minute sales. joining me now is tim kaine of virginia. thank you for being on the show. >> absolutely, really important, thank you. >> this timeline that we showed to our viewers on the screen right now, you know it firsthand, you were governor during the virginia tech shooting. especially when you have senator joe manchin opposing the two bills that face the house. >>. >> i have to believe that it will be permanent or else it would be hard to go to work every day. as you know i was the governor of virginia when the shooting happened at virginia tech in

2007. i tried to get my republican legislature at that point to do significant changes to virginia gunlaws and they would not do it. even in the aftermath of that shooting in american history. but we kept at it. in the last two years virginia passed a series of smart moves to prevent gun safety. we have reduced those virginia bills and the nra is headquartered in virginia. if the virginia legislature can do this congress can do it. the virginia bills are background checked. i don't know whether or not these last two tragedies in atlanta and boulder will be the two that will finally make congress do what the american public wants, but my gut tells me that we're getting closer and closer to when we'll finally take steps to keep people safe from this carnage. >> or you could argue like

corporations and big businesses, there has been congress doing things that for example, l.l. bean changed the age you had to be to buy a gun and ammunition. why do you think that congress is on a different page from state legislatures but from private companies and corporations, too, when it comes to reform. >> they don't sign on to all of the gun safety law bills but when we do the background check bill in 2021 every democrat, the same one, that is no longer here in support of that bill we could get unanimity on the back check make not precisely awarded as the house debt be i think we could get unanimity.

but what has been the problem is that republicans have lock, stock, and barrel allowed the nra that represents gun manufacturers. gun owners support background checks. they sell as many as needed. but hopefully the latest tragedies may wake up the desire to join with us to mote. they talk about how it is not out there. senator chris murphy and senator joe manchin, how do you get them to be on the same package? you can't even talk about getting to 60 until you get to 50. >> right, here is what we have to do and imencouraging the

senate leadership to do this on guns. there is 50/50 for things like background checks, and minimum wage, but you only do that when you get everyone in the room, eyeball everyone, and come up with a bill that all can support. chris murphy and i might support a different version of the background check bill, but joe manchin supports dramatic support of the background checks. we should be forging compromising where we can get 50/50. once we do we try to get republicans on board as well. >> one way that some are discussing maybe getting something through, obviously involves a filibuster.

they asked on a monday night video conference with senate democrats. i think you were only at least part of that call. did you hear that conversation and did president biden make it clear that he is not open to eliminating that 60 vote threshold? >> good news, bad news. bad news is i was not on that portion of the call, it's because i informs a very intense briefing with white house officials about the syrian missile strikes in february that was extremely productive pi by the time i finished and got on the call that changed. but look on your question about phil buster reform, my subsequents are not asking me about senate rules, they're asking about results. they want to do gun safety rules in congress like they have done in virginia. >> i get that but you can't get the results if the rules are as they are now. if you're a democrat and you're looking at the republican opposition. >> you're missing a step.

if we can get 50 out of 50 democrats we'll go out and try to get republicans on boards. many voted with us on 2013 and i think they will vote with us again especially since there has been hundreds of tragedies since sandy hook. i think we need to get all 50 dems together and then try to get republicans. if we're on something that america wants, they want to put a senate rule in front of results for the american people, okay, well that's the tough decision moment. but first step let's get all dems on board and then try to recruit republican votes and on background record checks, we ought to believe we have a chance of getting it. if we can't make something happen then we have to talk about the senate rules. we have to get results especially on this gun violence issue. the american public is so tired, sick to death, of congress accounting like a bystander.

when evil happens in the world it's always because ofbuy bystanders. congress has been a bystander to this epidemic of gun violence and we have to stop being a bystander. >> it's good to have you on the show. thank you for your perspective, we appreciate it. as we talk about the shooting in boulder, colorado we're learning more about the ten victims there from people that knew and loved them. tralona bartkowiak. her brother, michael, told the new york times that she was recently engaged and described her as a beam of light. suzanne fountain was a talented actress on stage who according to the post also helped health care counsellor. she leaves behind a son. teri leiker was a beloved

employee of king soopers for a long time. erica mahony says her father, kevin, represented all things love. he was about to be a grandfather. he was called a dad to the entire neighborhood. lynn murray was a retired photo director. her husband, john, calling the mother of two the warmest and brightest light. rikki olds was the front-end manager and also was going to school at a local community college. she had the denasty and big dreams to make a great life for herself and to help others along the way. denny strong was the youngest victim, he was 20 years old. he worked at king soopers since 2018. he was working to get his pilots

license. officer eric talley was first to arrive on the scene on monday. in 2013 he was called out by a local newspaper for rescuing a family of ducks from a drainage ditch. he leaves behind a wife and seven children. jody waters was a long time resident and she worked in and owned boutiques in the local mall. she is remembered as a beautiful soul. >> and neven stanisic. he worked as a technician, loved to snowboard, and he was a kind and good person. we remember all of them this morning here on msnbc. m this morning here on msnbc. same thin. that's why i go with liberty mutual — they customize my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. 'cause i do things a little differently. hey, i'll take one, please! wait, this isn't a hot-dog stand?

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♪♪♪ it's velveeta versus the other guys. clearly, nothing melts like velveeta. ♪♪♪ the new york tiemg -- this footage is tough to watch. it's disturbing. we will show it once. you can see one of the suspects highlights by the times raising a spray can and pointing it, spraying it in the direction of officer brian sicknick. you can see him turning away. murder charges are not being ruled out for the suspect by prosecutors investigating the riots. it comes as today the top prosecutor in the investigation

seems to be in hot water. remember the headline grabbing interview we covered on this show, where michael sherwin suggested they could face sedition charges? the justice department is investigating him for that after doj attention. it caught the attention of people in the legal world for a different reason. a u.s. district judge was surprised to say theis least to see sherwin sitting for an interview. >> the judge was concerned it could jeopardize the right of a fail trial. it's normally not allowed under the rules. the basic guidelines say you get one bite at the apple. you don't say anything except

what you say in court. during the interview he made comments about specific defendants. many prosecutors and former prosecutors were saying that's surprising. the justice department said in court that he had been referred to the office of professional responsibility, which is the internal watchdog in the justice department to see whether his interview violated those rules. it putsse us in a tough spot. as members of the news media, we want to know more about what's going onor inside the criminal cases. there areim guidelines in the justice department that generally frown on this sort of thing. that's why opr is looking at itt >> pete williams live in the newsroom. we want to take you to capitol hill. you are looking at live pictures from a house oversight committee hearing on an issue we have been talking about. this h is the hearing, it's virtual. it's how women are facing a biggerac share of economic pain from covid.

that's exacerbating the inequalities that were there. the averageeq woman loses more than half a milliondollars in a lifetime. bringing in a soccer star who has been trying to bringa attention to disparities. >> for each trophy of which there are many, for each win, each tie, each time we play, less. it can and it does happen to every persondo who is marginalid by gender. we can change that right now. we just have to want to. >> with me now, heather buchet. good morning. thank you for being on the show. >> good morning. happy to be here. >> the white house wants to be shining a light on equal pay and on what is happening given that megan will be at the white house

along with others to meet with president biden and the first lady.rs can you tell us about the tangible changess the white hoe wants to see out of this? >> yeah. equal pay is an important issue to us. it's important and we celebrate it each year, the time when a woman has to work into the next year to equal the pay a man earned last year. that is today. women have worked this much for free in 2021. the administration has focused on the experiences of women over the course of theer pandemic an how to get women and their families back a on their feet. think about all of the pieces in the american rescue plan that are targeted at the particular needs of women and their families, getting schools reopened, additional funds to open the childcare centers which doesn't just help moms but helps all of the workers who are women and women of color. we know that wrapping our hands around the pandemic, addressing that, getting the economy back

on track, that's going to help everyone but it's going to help women get back into the economy. >> we have been showing on screen -- i don't know if you can see it -- some of the stats that show women earn 82 cents for every dollar that men every and that is wider for women of color. do you believe it'sme executive action or legislative action that's going to be better served to actually try to fix this and number, two, has a reality of getting through right now? >> it's going to require an all hands on deck. there are things you can do through executive action. there are policies legislatively, like the paycheck fairness act, that could go a longld way to help close this g. we need to remember that this gap r happens to women, all kin of women. it's greater for women of color than white women. but it happens to women regardless of what kinds of educational attainment they have. even now that women are more likely to graduate from college than men, we still have this

pretty big unexplained pay gap. we need to make sure we marshal all of or forces and it's going to require thinking about the differentin tactics. >> one of the things that the white house is talking about, starting to focus on is where president biden goes and where the white house goes on the legislative front. "the washington post" is reporting some of the tax measures are raising the corporate tax rate, the global minimum tax from 13% to 21%, ending federal subsidies for fossil fuel companies, forcing multinational corporations to pay the u.s. rate. is that enough to cover this $3 trillion plan? >> there are a lot of options on the table. the president over the campaign and over the past few months has been very clear that we need to

make sure we not just build back but build back better. we sustain american competitiveness. a key part is going to be the package he will outline next and taxes are an important piece of the puzzle. what's important to really keep front and center is that this is about making sure that there are good jobs for americans all across our economy and that those jobs are available to men and tome women and that we are making sure that women have what they need to succeed in the workplace. >> do you expect president biden to talk more about this in pittsburgh, next week? specifically the next piece of his package plan, not just equal payday. >> certainly. he said that he will be talking about his next steps in pittsburgh next wednesday. i think n we all look forward t hearing him outline those plans. they are grounded in the values and vision he has been outlining all along.

>> thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate your time on what i know is an important day. are you going to meet with megan today? are you part of the meeting? >> i'm not part of the meeting. it would be great to see her. what an american hero. >> we showed a little bit from her. the meeting today, is a celia roust will join you at the briefing and emphasis on equal pay as something important here. >> certainly. it's a priority. women are an important part of our american society and making sure we are paid fairly is a part of making sure that we grow and sustain the middle class. >> thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate your time. we are keeping an eye on a number of live issues that are happening on capitol hill and thes white house. we have been talking about the

hearing, the key hearing, we expect to see senator schumer and mcconnell there at some point.el rare event. a key issue as it relates to the filibuster, potentially an issue thatst will animate democrats t take anaction. you can see senator roy blunt speaking. you have theto covid briefing a the white house happening as well. we are monitoring that. we will bring you any news as the white house puts a focus on reopening schools with the new comments from the education secretary. lots to watch forn throughout e day here on msnbc. we will turn it over to craig melvin. good wednesday morning to you. craigsd melvin here at msnbc headquarters. lots of ground to cover this hour. including the heartbreaking stories about the tenbr people gunned down at a colorado grocery store. >> if you can't go to the grocery store, where can you go?

>> right now, both president biden and vice president harris are calling out congress. they say it's time to act on guns, and they lay out where they want congress to start. we will look at that. members of the biden administration are heading to our southern border in texas. they will visit a facility housing migrants crossing the border. nbcg news has a new bird's eye view of what's actually happening on the ground and in the water there. this hour, an important conversation about what canr, actually be done to fix our broken immigration system. what has the best shot of passing in congress? i have two guests who have spent their haentire careers trying t answer those questions. back to school. the new u.s. secretary of education just laid out when he thinks all of our children will be back in the classroom. we start with the latest on

the mass shooting in colorado. steve patterson on the ground in boulder for us once again learning more about those ten victims. steve, so many heartbreaking stories. what are you hearing from people who actually knew these folks? >> reporter: i will be honest with you, i've been spending the last few hours blinking back tears learning about the heartbreak, the victims and their stories because it's so relatable. the victims range in age from 20 to 65. this is a whole spectrum of life lost fromec parents and grandparents to people that were just starting to figure this whole thing out. you have kevin mahoney, a father, that lived five minutes from the store. his daughter describes him as a hero. she's expecting a baby girl that will never meet her grandfather. think about the younger victims, rikki olds, 25 y